Some very interesting clips here. I don't think those Scientology boys do themselves any favors in these interviews.

What do you guys think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkmBoYxLwVA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWUiQx0tJAM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jX7zpfZe5fE

Okay, please forgive me for being VERY anecdotal here and whooping up pseudosceptical/cynical support, but I knew L. Ron Hubbard's chauffer. According to this guy, Hubbard was very aware of his movement being a scam and was quite open about it to his close friends. The chauffer was regularly visited by scientologists after Hubbard's death who refused to accept the movement was a farce and, in the end, just told them what they wanted to hear.

As I said, this type of story is just the sort of thing good sceptics should never take as hard evidence. It's just a bit of gossip among like-minded people that I thought would be interesting.

Nice one Jamie.

But nothing would surprise me about those nuts.

R.

I think the point about Hubbard being aware of his cult being a scam is a good reason why it never became dangerous in a "Heavens Gate" type way. Scientology regularly appears on "Cause for Concern" lists, but they rarely overstep the mark in a dramatic fashion. Their cynical celebrity recruitment might actually be what stops a truly charismatic leader from stepping forward and becoming venerated like a god. As we have seen from case studies like Charles Manson and Rev. Jim Jones, the con part might be bad but the truly dangerous stuff happens when the conman believes in their own bullshit.

What's the difference between a cult and a religion other than numbers?

I see creationism as a cult. Even if they are out in the open...

Personally, I don't trust any organized religion. Even if appears benign at the beginning.

Let us not forget the old, "bait and switch".

But don't you see that the size pretty much dictates the secracy. The mormons, for example, have the attributes of a cult in many ways, but their sheer size discounts them as a cult. I would say that Scientology might not be far off. The bigger a cult gets the less need their is to be secret.

Looks like they are loosing a lot of power over the last year or so. Probably due to Cruise acting like a complete idiot, and more and more people are starting to speak out against the cult. Fair play!

Just look at the Jason Beghe interview - it was totally scathing!

[quote]Unfortunately I don't know enough about the Mormons to comment but I do think that no matter how big Scientology gets (and it's already pretty big) it will remain a cult because it hides things from the followers until they are well and truly indoctrinated.[quote]

Firstly I definitely recommend that you look up the mormons and the origins of all the world's major religions. You will see a lot "cult-like" activity at the beginning, including being secretive. I would like to say your average local mainstream religious place doesn't harbour any secrets, but unfortunately we know this isn't always the case. Think Northern Ireland, think paedophile rings, think Al qaeda, think the fraud in the early 1980s associated with the church. Perhaps the larger the Scientologists get the less secrets they will hide.

Quote:

Looks like they are loosing a lot of power over the last year or so. Probably due to Cruise acting like a complete idiot, and more and more people are starting to speak out against the cult. Fair play!

One would hope so, but remember these guys were being exposed and debunked back in the 1950s in "Fads and Fallacies" and that's the very decade where it all started.

Sorry if I sound pessimistic.