Dont worry about it Jamie,

everybody goes off topic at some point,

thats what admin's for, to steer it back if anyones really bothered,

just keep civil and keep putting information from credible sources out there and no one can blame you for that m8,

Den.

I don't care about upsetting anyone, I just like to be respectful to the topic. I am a sod for tangenting full stop. I think I have Billy Connolly-itus. Anyway we have moved away from acupuncture now and gone into the other realms of the chi business, which just seems to me to show that it is - at best - an outmoded way to describe energy. As I said before, I can accept the spiritual idea so long as those who embrace it don't then try to prove its existance through parlour tricks and pseudoscience.

Any chance you could post on my martial arts cults topic again? I tried to bring it to the front, but it quickly got swamped. I think it is being neglected when it is a great source for information on several currently popular topics on that forum.

Thanks, but I bet no one follows you up on it. Such things are not comfortable to discuss in the martial arts community ;-)

Just a follow up on the Qi thread, im trying to get back to what qi is. If we accept Qi as energy and it can be reduced to e = mc2 that still does not tell me what it does! All known energy does something hence the question 'does it heal/kill or both?'.

Paris bless her cherry picking quotes from books to try and support her belief system does not sit well with me, which is possibly how I came across aggressive, I hate good scnce being manipulated in the same way Jamies is annoyed by history being twisted to fit.

Admittedly I havent looked at Paris's long post on science proving Qi properly, but I read enough to see inconsistencies with good science and again a lot of it is her beliefs, not facts and again confusing a scientific theory with english language theory. That is based on lack of scientific background and relying on books for the layman.

I think I posted a physics forum link on here that would blow that 'science' post away.

However I do not want to start all this stuff up again, Ilready mentioned things like 'quantum physics being relatively new' in comparison to theory of gravity which has 200 years of empirical evidence to support it! Which also means there are set laws of gravity, but again people will always cherry pick science to make their beliefs work.

All I can say is if Taoquan is going to take the search for Qi seriously, he has got years of science ahead of him and it may never, as I believe come to fruition.

I cannot believe up to now an energy that Physics/biology and chemistry has not found which can heal or harm. Maybe im cynical but so many doctors, pysicists, biologists have debunked Qi its hard to believe, unless they get some serious evidence, which all theories gain to some degree, Im no buying in.

As to the youtube dark matter video, it was a very basic overview, a little bit on the fringe side of reporting and saying at the end it ould overturn Darwins theory of evolution, 150yrs of empirical data! Smacks of creationists to me, could be wrong but........

Regards,

Den

I haven't really followed it all since you and Paris started talking. I understand your frustration and all these different explanations for qi, coupled with the widespread obvious charlatanism and quackery going on means that I will need a hell of a lot of convincing to believe in the physical existance of qi.

Dark Matter and Quantum Mechanics, like Chaos Theory, are annoyingly thrown about as if they were joker cards that completely throw all of accepted science into doubt. It just doesn't wash with me.

Through pm Paris tried to explain she believes every force, gravity etc are all one. This is based on her assumptions of what she has read about quantum physics, which we both know is bandied by the new age movement a lot.

Infact Point of Inquiry are discussng just this in this weeks podcast although I havent had chance to listen to it yet.

What I was trying to get at on there has came across wrong but im just going to leave it, ting to change fundamental laws, not hypotheses or theories, laws of physics will take an extraordinary amount of evidence. Far more than someone posting a you tube vid and readig some outdated laymans books on the subject.

Anyway I tried thats all i can do i suppose,

Cheers,

Den.